On making the world softer and safer ❤️‍🩹, with Rhiana Gunn-Wright

In the last few months, the term “Green New Deal” has been popping up a lot again. And it’s the Trump administration bringing it up — as a boogeyman, as a foil for everything his crew fears about accelerating the clean energy transition.

So, as the Environmental Protection Agency is being torn apart, I thought it would be a good time to discuss: What actually is the Green New Deal? How far have we gotten on implementing the concepts it includes? And why do those ideas still matter?

Rhiana Gunn-Wright dropping knowledge. (Photo: Charlie B.)

My guest for this episode is Rhiana Gunn-Wright, one of the original architects of the Green New Deal. She's a policy expert, a Rhodes Scholar, and a Chicago native. Recently, she was Director of Climate Policy at the Roosevelt Institute. Now, she is consulting* and writing a book about the intersections among white supremacy, addiction, and climate change. Suffice it to say, I’ve been eagerly following her work since we met at a policy workshop she organized, back in 2019.

There's much more to this conversation than the Green New Deal. Her ideas about what shapes climate policy should take — from industry to employment to health care to democracy — are absolutely as relevant as ever.

In a sense, my book, What If We Get It Right?, sprouted from similar motivation as the Green New Deal did: to show the ways forward, to offer a vision. So I hope you’ll enjoy this conversation with Rhiana as much as I did. She is an incredible writer and thinker — go look up everything she's published. She's also an absolute gem of a human being. It was such a treat to sit down with her in her hometown at SemiColon Books, a Black-woman owned bookstore and gallery dedicated to supporting literacy and a love of books in communities of color.

With Rhiana at Semicolon Books. Bonus: the Chicago skyline. (Photo: Carlie B.)

Note that this conversation was recorded back in October while I was on my book tour, and the political context has, well,… changed a little bit since then. But many things remain true. As Rhiana put it, in words that will stick with me for a very long time, “We so underestimate what gets unleashed when you make the world softer and safer.” Amen.

This episode was produced and edited by Nora Saks and me, with recording assistance in Chicago from Troy Cruz. And big thank you to Semicolon Books for hosting us.

*Rhiana is a brilliant writer, editor, strategist, and storyteller. If you can get on her roster, that would be great for you.

My vibe these days. 🫨 Yours too? Hang in there, y’all.

p.s. Call your representatives!